The true villain of Pride & Prejudice was the social and economic structure of the day - putting women in a position to either marry for wealth or be stripped of all status and security.
Had it not been a novel requiring the plot device of Lizzie refusing Mr. Darcy's horrifying first proposal (one of the absolute BEST scenes in the book...oh my firetrucking hell, yes! those fireworks), of course Lizzie would have agreed to marry Mr. Darcy. Lizzie wasn't a fool by any stretch of the imagination.
As much as I hate to admit it though, Mrs. Bennett was a bit of a hero. She did manage, after all, to marry off three of her daughters - although Lydia ended up at the mercy of Jane and Lizzie's kindnesses since Wickham couldn't be bother to support himself and his wife through admirable means. That was no small feat. I just wish she'd been a bit more...likeable. The eyerolling commences every time she enters the scene at my house. I just cannot even with her.
All that said, I absolutely love this book. I love Lizzie and Mr. Darcy and all the rest of the characters just as they are.
Yes, Jodi, I, along with all first readers of Pride and Prejudice thought Mrs Bennett a fool and laughed at her along with Mr Bennett and Lizzie, and then as I got older, I re-read and realised that Mrs Bennett is left to do everything whilst Mr Bennett sits on his arse in his library. She is the heroine. She is trying to make sure her girls do not end up living a life of penury. Surely, she is a bit too scheming, but who can blame her! She is too talkative, loud and inappropriate (that reminds me of someone...oh yes, me!) but she will go to any lengths to ensure her daughters' safety in a society that sees women as chattels and doesn't allow them any rights (unless you are an independently wealthy widow, like Lady Catherine de Bourgh). So, I agree with you wholeheartedly on that point. I don't agree with you that Lizzie is the villain. Who'd want to be saddled with Collins, except poor, plain Charlotte Lucas? Lizzie is her father's daughter of course, an intellectual snob who somehow also believes in love. A strange mixture. I think Mr Bennett is the villain, for failing to protect his daughters in the present and the future, in a world where money and honour count for everything. By the way, have you ever thought of A Muppet's Pride and Prejudice? Obviously, Miss Piggy and Kermit are Mrs and Mrs Bennett, perhaps Fozzie Bear is Bingley. Any other thoughts on this?
I read P&P for O-level English Lit so I've read it at least 3 times, probably more. The true villain is Mr B. He married a woman socially beneath him (probably for a nice figure and a pair of pretty eyes) and is estranged from his family (probably because of this marriage). Poor Mrs B is worn out from numerous pregnancies (at least 10 in 20 years of marriage). Only the girls have survived (females are stronger). As we know, that's not her fault, it's his. Finding suitable husbands for 5 girls is no easy task. A man with wealth can marry for love, but a poor nobleman must marry for money - when society ran out of rich British heiresses, they started on the Americans. Many a British noble family in the 19th & 20th centuries were saved by Americans. Look at the Churchills!
Mr B is neglectful of his girls as he sees them as silly and vain. A good father would have been out there finding husbands like the local lawyer or clergyman (not the odious Mr Collins).
No I can't agree with Mrs B being the heroine, it was despite her the elder girls marry well, through their own merits by educating themselves & behaving in a more discreet way. Mrs B's behaviour added to the objection of low connections whilst Mr & Mrs G showed it did not really count if you behaved in a more genteel manner. It was Mrs B's indulgence to Lydia & to a lesser extent the other younger girls that leads them open to ridicule regarding their behaviour & to the elopement. As for Lizzy marrying Darcey when he first asked, he did not respect her or her family & had actively broken up Jane & Bingley due to this, so realistically how much would he have done to forward the fortunes of her family, very little I suspect! Mr B could have done more to make the girls educated & respectable but admits his own indolence although does act when he sees fit e.g. visiting Bingley when he arrives in the neighbourhood. I can understand Mrs B's worries for her daughters but I don't think she helped their cause with all her scheming.
Mr Bennet always struck me as the real fool. In French, a benêt is a stupid man, and I wonder if Jane thought of that when she named the family. Mrs Bennet is wonderful comic relief though, if I were an actress, I would love her role!
It is too bad that Mr. Bennett didn't plan better...but there you are. Mrs. Bennett should be helping the girls to the best they can. Re; Mrs. Bennett.....It's not the 'goal' of finding fine husbands for her daughters to marry that causes all of the issues, it' about how she goes about it. It's her general demeanor (for that time period), and how she interacts with other people. Part of the 'how she goes about it' is sending her younger daughters out into the world when they have not been prepared/educated or taught how to interact or communicate in that role (of someone old enough to look for a husband in that time period)..... or how to develop some common sense, education etc. So no... heroine is definitely not Mrs. Bennett.
Mrs Bennett is very harshly judged. They will literally be destitute if Mr Bennett dies and she has five children to consider, none of whom she will be able to marry off if that happens. She absolutely needs a couple of them married before that point or they are all out on the street. It’s a shame that her desperation affects her actions so obviously, as it has the opposite effect of the one she is going for, but you can’t blame her for being so concerned with it. Lizzie isn’t the villain though. Yes, marrying Mr Collins solves their problems from a housing perspective, but it doesn’t help to get the other sisters married with lives of their own. Probably the opposite, despite the patronage of Lady Catherine! If she’d accepted Mr Darcy the first time around MAYBE things would have worked out ok, and perhaps he would have come around in the end, Jane and Bingley could have ended up together. Maybe Lydia wouldn’t have gone to Brighton, who knows. But she refuses him at least partially because of what he did to Jane and Bingley, if he hadn’t done that pragmatism might perhaps have won out. She is young and beautiful and clever, she has had two proposals so there’s no particular reason to think this is her last opportunity. Who knows what might have happened with Colonel Fitzwilliam…!
Mr Bennett is the villain. He basically admits as much after Lydia elopes too. He should have put away a sum to bribe worthless young men to marry his daughters, but he didn’t.
Mrs Bennett both hero and villain. Just because, in historical hindsight, she can claim moral high ground doesn't change the fact that Jane portrayed her as an obstacle to her daughter's being able to achieve the very marriages she desired so strongly.
I'm not sure Jane's difficulties were caused solely by Mrs Bennett. Yes, she didn't help her cause in any way, but Bingley's sisters were very determined he would marry Darcy's sister - if only because they thought it would make it easier for Caroline to marry Mr Darcy. I think Mrs Bennett is a clever example of someone doing the right thing the wrong way.
I can't see Lizzie as a villain- when Darcy proposes the first time, the only redeeming feature that we've seen has been his bank balance. He's rude about her family and been so snooty that his proposal comes out of the blue. Lizzie would be justified in thinking that he'd make her miserable (and given how rude he is about her family, how likely would it be that he'd be willing to support them?) based on that evidence. Would it be ok to shackle yourself irreversibly to someone you didn't even like for the family finances? I can't say. Also, Lizzie has had two proposals in rapid succession. What's to say there won't be another, from someone she could actually like (and she has her parents' example of marrying someone you can't respect)? Mrs Bennett is heroic (it seems to me that she's the only member of the family who has realised the reality of the situation and it has- reasonably - terrified her), but I'd argue that the villains are (predictably) male: Mr Wickham (psychopath, obvs- has anyone else noticed that he only runs off with Lydia after he's noticed that things are developing between Darcy and Lizzie- i.e. that there might be an angle to exploit?) and Mr Bennett, who just seems to be happy to watch things burn. I don't know how well prepared women were for that world as a rule.
It was an age where marrying for love wasn't even considered. Many women considered themselves fortunate if they even liked their husbands. If offered a choice - who would you choose? Wickham, charming and feckless. Or Mr Collins - steady, reliable and unspeakable. it's not easy, is it??!
do you think Mr Bennett married for love? “He, captivated by youth and beauty, and that appearance of good humour which youth and beauty generally give …” might have lead Lizzie to want to do the same, (though with a better outcome) or was it more likely they followed social convention & didn’t have much choice as he “… had married a woman whose weak understanding and illiberal mind had very early in their marriage put an end to all real affection for her.”
I agree Mrs Bennett gets a rough deal whilst Mr Bennett goes unchecked but it mirrors the behaviour of anyone marrying Mr Collins & spending as little time as possible with their spouse
However, had Elizabeth accepted Darcy the first time around Darcy would never have learned to be less prideful and would have never spoken with Bingley, thus ruining Jane’s happy ending.
Though, Mrs. Bennett does truly deserve more respect than she is given. And she probably needs some anti anxiety meds, poor dear.
The true villain of Pride & Prejudice was the social and economic structure of the day - putting women in a position to either marry for wealth or be stripped of all status and security.
Had it not been a novel requiring the plot device of Lizzie refusing Mr. Darcy's horrifying first proposal (one of the absolute BEST scenes in the book...oh my firetrucking hell, yes! those fireworks), of course Lizzie would have agreed to marry Mr. Darcy. Lizzie wasn't a fool by any stretch of the imagination.
As much as I hate to admit it though, Mrs. Bennett was a bit of a hero. She did manage, after all, to marry off three of her daughters - although Lydia ended up at the mercy of Jane and Lizzie's kindnesses since Wickham couldn't be bother to support himself and his wife through admirable means. That was no small feat. I just wish she'd been a bit more...likeable. The eyerolling commences every time she enters the scene at my house. I just cannot even with her.
All that said, I absolutely love this book. I love Lizzie and Mr. Darcy and all the rest of the characters just as they are.
Yes, Jodi, I, along with all first readers of Pride and Prejudice thought Mrs Bennett a fool and laughed at her along with Mr Bennett and Lizzie, and then as I got older, I re-read and realised that Mrs Bennett is left to do everything whilst Mr Bennett sits on his arse in his library. She is the heroine. She is trying to make sure her girls do not end up living a life of penury. Surely, she is a bit too scheming, but who can blame her! She is too talkative, loud and inappropriate (that reminds me of someone...oh yes, me!) but she will go to any lengths to ensure her daughters' safety in a society that sees women as chattels and doesn't allow them any rights (unless you are an independently wealthy widow, like Lady Catherine de Bourgh). So, I agree with you wholeheartedly on that point. I don't agree with you that Lizzie is the villain. Who'd want to be saddled with Collins, except poor, plain Charlotte Lucas? Lizzie is her father's daughter of course, an intellectual snob who somehow also believes in love. A strange mixture. I think Mr Bennett is the villain, for failing to protect his daughters in the present and the future, in a world where money and honour count for everything. By the way, have you ever thought of A Muppet's Pride and Prejudice? Obviously, Miss Piggy and Kermit are Mrs and Mrs Bennett, perhaps Fozzie Bear is Bingley. Any other thoughts on this?
What about Gonzo as Mr Collins? And Animal as Mr Wickham!
A Muppets Pride and Prejudice makes me so happy! Ernie is Mr. Bingley. Bert would have to be Mr. Darcy. Grover as Mr. Collins?
tbh I was thinking of The Count as D'arcy.
I read P&P for O-level English Lit so I've read it at least 3 times, probably more. The true villain is Mr B. He married a woman socially beneath him (probably for a nice figure and a pair of pretty eyes) and is estranged from his family (probably because of this marriage). Poor Mrs B is worn out from numerous pregnancies (at least 10 in 20 years of marriage). Only the girls have survived (females are stronger). As we know, that's not her fault, it's his. Finding suitable husbands for 5 girls is no easy task. A man with wealth can marry for love, but a poor nobleman must marry for money - when society ran out of rich British heiresses, they started on the Americans. Many a British noble family in the 19th & 20th centuries were saved by Americans. Look at the Churchills!
Mr B is neglectful of his girls as he sees them as silly and vain. A good father would have been out there finding husbands like the local lawyer or clergyman (not the odious Mr Collins).
No I can't agree with Mrs B being the heroine, it was despite her the elder girls marry well, through their own merits by educating themselves & behaving in a more discreet way. Mrs B's behaviour added to the objection of low connections whilst Mr & Mrs G showed it did not really count if you behaved in a more genteel manner. It was Mrs B's indulgence to Lydia & to a lesser extent the other younger girls that leads them open to ridicule regarding their behaviour & to the elopement. As for Lizzy marrying Darcey when he first asked, he did not respect her or her family & had actively broken up Jane & Bingley due to this, so realistically how much would he have done to forward the fortunes of her family, very little I suspect! Mr B could have done more to make the girls educated & respectable but admits his own indolence although does act when he sees fit e.g. visiting Bingley when he arrives in the neighbourhood. I can understand Mrs B's worries for her daughters but I don't think she helped their cause with all her scheming.
Mr Bennet always struck me as the real fool. In French, a benêt is a stupid man, and I wonder if Jane thought of that when she named the family. Mrs Bennet is wonderful comic relief though, if I were an actress, I would love her role!
It is too bad that Mr. Bennett didn't plan better...but there you are. Mrs. Bennett should be helping the girls to the best they can. Re; Mrs. Bennett.....It's not the 'goal' of finding fine husbands for her daughters to marry that causes all of the issues, it' about how she goes about it. It's her general demeanor (for that time period), and how she interacts with other people. Part of the 'how she goes about it' is sending her younger daughters out into the world when they have not been prepared/educated or taught how to interact or communicate in that role (of someone old enough to look for a husband in that time period)..... or how to develop some common sense, education etc. So no... heroine is definitely not Mrs. Bennett.
Mrs Bennett is very harshly judged. They will literally be destitute if Mr Bennett dies and she has five children to consider, none of whom she will be able to marry off if that happens. She absolutely needs a couple of them married before that point or they are all out on the street. It’s a shame that her desperation affects her actions so obviously, as it has the opposite effect of the one she is going for, but you can’t blame her for being so concerned with it. Lizzie isn’t the villain though. Yes, marrying Mr Collins solves their problems from a housing perspective, but it doesn’t help to get the other sisters married with lives of their own. Probably the opposite, despite the patronage of Lady Catherine! If she’d accepted Mr Darcy the first time around MAYBE things would have worked out ok, and perhaps he would have come around in the end, Jane and Bingley could have ended up together. Maybe Lydia wouldn’t have gone to Brighton, who knows. But she refuses him at least partially because of what he did to Jane and Bingley, if he hadn’t done that pragmatism might perhaps have won out. She is young and beautiful and clever, she has had two proposals so there’s no particular reason to think this is her last opportunity. Who knows what might have happened with Colonel Fitzwilliam…!
Mr Bennett is the villain. He basically admits as much after Lydia elopes too. He should have put away a sum to bribe worthless young men to marry his daughters, but he didn’t.
Mrs Bennett both hero and villain. Just because, in historical hindsight, she can claim moral high ground doesn't change the fact that Jane portrayed her as an obstacle to her daughter's being able to achieve the very marriages she desired so strongly.
I'm not sure Jane's difficulties were caused solely by Mrs Bennett. Yes, she didn't help her cause in any way, but Bingley's sisters were very determined he would marry Darcy's sister - if only because they thought it would make it easier for Caroline to marry Mr Darcy. I think Mrs Bennett is a clever example of someone doing the right thing the wrong way.
Sorry when I mentioned Jane, I meant Austen not Bennett! 🤣
I can't see Lizzie as a villain- when Darcy proposes the first time, the only redeeming feature that we've seen has been his bank balance. He's rude about her family and been so snooty that his proposal comes out of the blue. Lizzie would be justified in thinking that he'd make her miserable (and given how rude he is about her family, how likely would it be that he'd be willing to support them?) based on that evidence. Would it be ok to shackle yourself irreversibly to someone you didn't even like for the family finances? I can't say. Also, Lizzie has had two proposals in rapid succession. What's to say there won't be another, from someone she could actually like (and she has her parents' example of marrying someone you can't respect)? Mrs Bennett is heroic (it seems to me that she's the only member of the family who has realised the reality of the situation and it has- reasonably - terrified her), but I'd argue that the villains are (predictably) male: Mr Wickham (psychopath, obvs- has anyone else noticed that he only runs off with Lydia after he's noticed that things are developing between Darcy and Lizzie- i.e. that there might be an angle to exploit?) and Mr Bennett, who just seems to be happy to watch things burn. I don't know how well prepared women were for that world as a rule.
It was an age where marrying for love wasn't even considered. Many women considered themselves fortunate if they even liked their husbands. If offered a choice - who would you choose? Wickham, charming and feckless. Or Mr Collins - steady, reliable and unspeakable. it's not easy, is it??!
do you think Mr Bennett married for love? “He, captivated by youth and beauty, and that appearance of good humour which youth and beauty generally give …” might have lead Lizzie to want to do the same, (though with a better outcome) or was it more likely they followed social convention & didn’t have much choice as he “… had married a woman whose weak understanding and illiberal mind had very early in their marriage put an end to all real affection for her.”
I agree Mrs Bennett gets a rough deal whilst Mr Bennett goes unchecked but it mirrors the behaviour of anyone marrying Mr Collins & spending as little time as possible with their spouse
However, had Elizabeth accepted Darcy the first time around Darcy would never have learned to be less prideful and would have never spoken with Bingley, thus ruining Jane’s happy ending.
Though, Mrs. Bennett does truly deserve more respect than she is given. And she probably needs some anti anxiety meds, poor dear.